Episode Summary

Today on the podcast, we discuss SRAM's new GX T-Type Transmission Drivetrain in addition to Trail One's new Vortex pedals and our bucket list worthy trip to Whistler, BC before jumping into an ever entertaining array of questions ranging from the tastiest crayon color to bike weight and everything in between. Tune in!

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ladies and gentlemen welcome to episode 115 of the MTB podcast presented and

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hosted by worldwide Cyclery I am Jared my name is Jeff my name's Liam

0:16

we are back in the studio Jared is back with us that's right uh yeah we're gonna

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be back on a roll of doing podcasts every couple weeks optimistically and we're here we for a while we're all

0:29

there for a little over a week our whole week we were in Whistler we rode Whistler Pemberton Squamish uh with

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chasing epic guided mountain bike tours that was awesome that was a really fun trip and yeah I had a great time did you

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enjoy yourself Jared had an absolute time of a life lifetime time of the life yeah time of life Liam time of life as

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well I had a time of life I mean it's hard to not have the time of the life when

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you're in British Columbia yeah ran bikes and uh you know summer they just

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nurture you so well there they just give you good bike trails and good food and good drink yeah and then you leave

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yeah yeah well I'm blown away at the trails there yeah and the amount of man-made trails that are built really

1:13

well with a lot of intention and you know just details and it's just cool and so well thought it seem to chip into

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that yeah the community surrounding each Zone seems just so solid especially in

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Squamish like yeah Trails everywhere like spider webs of trails and they're just like yeah we have races every

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Tuesday and you know dig days every month barbecue days like all these different things at the trail Community organizes yeah around us it's like you

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want to Trail too bad yeah you want to show for mountain biking nope too bad too bad yeah this is like wow remember

1:45

Jared when you reached out to the local jail Network Cosca offered them free

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labor and money and they denied yeah you know what else is crazy it's just like the stark contrast you know like we just

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came back from the sick trip and then we like you know what we come down to Backbone like our favorite Trail like yeah they're just taking a bulldozer

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down it oh yeah you want a corner there too bad nice and soft loose well doing stop stop

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what you're saying is it's actually gonna be better it will be eventually yeah but they couldn't miss it it's like Jared's emotionally angry in the moment

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it's still very salty about it yesterday though well yeah

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do they do the wrong time of year yeah of course you don't do that in Middle summer however yeah it's good trail work

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they just did a wrong time of year and I also saw that this had this huge water tank up top and I have like you know

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very naively thought oh maybe they'll eat some of that water to like pack it down or like put it in some Corners like

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oh no that would be way too nice to yeah you know a little a little discombobulated and then it's like yeah

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up in Squamish got a new Lumber like every couple weeks yeah it's like every two weeks they have a new Lumber it's

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like oh man cool cool they do it well I mean they have I think was it sorba the

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name of the I think off-road something or is that what it was I don't know um but they have they literally have the

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signs kind of around the trail Network there that has that chill Network and it says you know donate to help help the cause help us build Trails go to Trail

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Forks you know Trail Karma it's like yeah this is amazing like they make it clear and obvious okay you're riding our

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Trails please thank us this is where how you can help us I mean yeah it's just well done it's super impressive

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um yeah I like riding bikes in Canada for that exact reason some of those signs were pretty fun I think one of them said something like

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um are you climbing with that heavy weight of your conscience like please feel free to donate to the trail organization I didn't notice that one

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that's a good good one yeah there's always every time I'm in Canada I'm always laughing at the names of the

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trails they're just creative hilariousness I think that's kind of everywhere yeah Trail names would just

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get wild yeah you got any funny John Ames locally some of them I can't say on the podcast well

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well there's a couple in Rocky Peak which are but official Trail names locally that are marked well official

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funny or are they on trail form marked yeah like there's a sign we don't even have those there's some signs out there

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I'm barely yeah yeah none of the none that are funny or like even like cool handmade wooden like carvings and like

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you know hand-painted like yeah nothing like that bureaucracy is not helping the cause of many we did have the golf ball

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Trail which was about as close you know in terms of fun and like little got torn down four weeks in four weeks because it

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was not officially approved and then they spent who knows how much money to send people out there to throw and

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destroy the entire Trail it's so backwards and cut out more Chaparral which they're worried about yeah in the

4:37

first place yeah it's just so backwards well let's get back though let's not grab about the local church

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we also left Jared and Whistler for a week he slept in and we were like dude

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we're out we're uh where Jeff and I in the flight to make and we left Jared in Canada so yeah

4:54

how'd that go yeah it went great everything's good energy ride after you're gonna ride the road the day you

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guys left um but couldn't make Vancouver Island happen just because the logistics like originally I was supposed to be two-hour

5:07

drive across the island from when we were staying um but that Road is closed so there's a detour that ended up leaving like a five

5:13

hour drive so um it was just you know cutting it too close to go for a ride

5:19

over there on the island and the ward on the street is you're engaged it's true that's correct yeah

5:25

yeah she did say yes everybody was asking I said that on the the last podcast I was like oh Jared's in Canada

5:31

asking a girl to marry him and and uh Taylor was like what if what if Paige hears that like what when is this

5:37

podcast going out or like she was a little worried about it I'm like man I said that after yeah you know the record

5:43

date was even asked after he asked did whatever I thought it was funny kind of people put out valid I didn't really

5:48

even consider that so good no it's pretty funny a couple people just came out of the woodwork hey I heard you're

5:54

getting married I was just like kind of off my phone a lot of time like what are you talking about and then like like Matt Bradley

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he's like hey man you're getting married I'm proud of you man I was like thanks man a lot of funny comments about predictions of how many kids you're

6:06

gonna have yeah and things like that that one guy said I was gonna have like eight kids dude give me a break dude

6:12

like man I cannot afford eight kids I can't even afford one kid right now let alone eight yeah especially with being

6:18

taking up all your time and money yeah being the cat being the cat man you're gonna take being the captain I wish she would really love it there so

6:26

that is trip is the next mountain bike trip uh

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we have on the books I'm pretty sure it's sold out at the moment but we did recently have a couple cancellations so

6:39

there was a couple open spots but I think they're already gone I don't know if you're interested um Jared put a link in the show notes

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please yep uh yeah I can't wait for that so early September riding the dolomites

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all those fantastic Italian mountain bike trails wow yeah it's gonna be the recent EDR Enduro race was in Canada

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formerly the ews yeah formerly ews whatever um the Val de FASA no it was in Canada

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okay yeah well then that was maybe the week before or something yeah which is in the dolomites which looks like maybe

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an hour at most from where we're going nice so similar terrain and and stuff and it's beautiful and trails look epic

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so nice yeah if you just Google mountain biking and the dolomites like all you see is photos that make you go yeah I

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want to go there yeah stoked for that one let's just rip through the next two

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months so we can get there I am really looking forward to that yeah well we should jump into

7:35

uh one important thing today which is SRAM just releasing the GX Eagle access

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transmission oh wow Type transmission Eagle access yeah spam

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GX axs T-Type so mgxt type so access T-Type

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transmission jiggle ex T-Type transmission if you remember I

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think it was March SRAM introduced their uh quote unquote transmission drivetrain

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which is the the hangerless drivetrain system where the derailleur mounts directly to the frame clamps onto it uh

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does not use a derailleur hanger and it's compatible with frames that are made around the udh the universal driller hanger standard and uh yeah that

8:19

was that was pretty cool pretty big news um I think some of the you know it was very different look very different take

8:24

on how you mount a trailer to a bike and I don't know one of the most amazing things we all noticed off the bat is how

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quiet it was but also how you could shift under load which was amazing and when they did that it came out with xxxl

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xx and XO and XL right so three variants yeah all super high end yep um and now

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it has trickled down to the GX level tickle down tickle down technology yeah

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we also have a YouTube video about it if you want to see what it looks like as well um just a short sort of announcement

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video that uh covers all the various details and Visually shows you what it looks like uh which it actually for the

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most part looks the same except not the derailleur they changed where the battery is actually mounted so instead

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of mounting and hanging off the back of the trailer it's now kind of tucked inside of that little would you call that that parallelogram a little bit I'd

9:17

say the upper part of the cage that amounts to the frame it kind of like sits below the frame now which is really

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sleek and actually yeah kind of arguably better yeah looks really good which I

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mean I guess they they do Market GX is the most robust offering that they make so yeah it's more robust like it even

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has so do you see it has those little skid plates on the actual derailleur body that you can uh replace yeah it's

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like did the other ones have I think XO definitely has that I'm not sure about XX or xxso because that is made for

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weight but yeah EXO I believe has that in GX yeah they call them like skip I

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think they do call them skid plates um yeah for the most part no it's pretty much the same

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um yeah because that looks different because that looks different yeah a lot of people ask what's the difference between the various Drive trains we've

10:03

made videos on that in the past um but it largely boils down to a

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feature here there in this case I don't really know if there's any features missing

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um yeah you know the shifter pod might not have little replaceable rubber pads yeah

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now the XX and xx SL have however you can use that pot if you'd want you can and it's the same pod as XO so like yeah

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features I don't know if there's any features that's necessarily yeah there used to be occasional things where they would like hold features back if you

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went higher end but now it really just comes into like weight and materials which I feel like even with the last

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axis offerings and even mechanical GX to xx1

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is all the same pretty much like it just basically comes down to materials and weight yep and the these derailers just

10:54

like the higher end ones uh are pretty modular in the sense that uh you can you can replace pieces so if you just

11:01

destroy the cage somehow you can buy a new cage to replace it um pretty cool so price point wise 1099 that's the group

11:08

set that comes with a crank set that has a chainring on it uh the derailleur cassette flat top chain the Pod

11:15

controller I.E shifter as well as the battery and the charger so 1099

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definitely more than your regular GX Eagle access upgrade kit that's non-transmission

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um but yeah a way a way more robust and better product so yeah it's cool to see that again it only this like all the

11:34

transmission or t type stuff only fits on bikes that use the udh the universal trailer hanger from SRAM we have an

11:40

article all about how to figure that out if your bike has that or not you probably know if you're a mountain bike nerd enough to listen to the mountain

11:47

bike podcast hmm maybe not I don't know yeah but I thought it was cool the cranks come in

11:52

165 as well as 170 and 175 so it's nice to see that uh srams paying attention to

11:59

Trends and realizing a lot of people are running 165 cranks on Enduro bikes and yeah now they're making their all right

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various cranks in that link I have xxsl crankson 165 on my bike

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yeah yeah my I was kind of uh like pretty shocked

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to see the weights of all of these parts are not too far off XO I mean as a whole

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yeah you know you add up every single part but you know say you have an EXO derailleur you buy a bike with it and

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you blow it up which kudos to you because they seem to be pretty hard to break but yeah um I mean you need a whole new

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derailleur go into GX is only 17 grams heavier for a derailleur and like that's

12:39

where I think at least for myself on like Enduro bikes or e-bikes where I'm smashing derailers like I always buy GX

12:45

trailers I almost never buy XO I'll buy the nice shifters I'll buy nice chains I'll buy nice cassettes yeah but I

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usually go one level down on the the derailleur just to you know Smash It it doesn't hurt quite as much yeah so and

12:58

buy the data uh a lot more people buy the GX level Drive trains um than the

13:05

higher end stuff because yeah I mean it's it's it's fantastic value for your money and if you're looking for

13:11

fantastic value for your money that's the one to go with yeah you're looking for the creme de La Creme then of course

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you go all the way up but yeah value for your money a GX absolutely crushes it there so definitely it's nice yeah

13:22

there's not too much difference in weight what about cassettes though because that there's a significant that's where the significant weight

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penalty is going to come into play yeah because chains a little bit but it's mostly the cassettes the cassette for XO

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uh transmission cassette is 379 grams and for GX transmission cassette is 444.

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so what is that 65 80 grand Kent every game yeah I mean

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that's the only chance man that's also only rotating weight of the whole thing so 65 grams of rotating weight is you

13:54

know what they say one-third or three times three times three times the weight so but that would be I think if it's on

14:01

the on the road area or Tire nipple out nipple out not nipple in

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but no I I agree I mean I think the if you go probably one of your Best Bets is

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to get the higher end cassette it's got different materials and it's much lighter and then you get all the GX

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everything else yeah maybe EXO chain because you do get any the Hall of pins jalapen change which it also happens to

14:25

be stronger than solid pen believe it or not it looks awesome yeah it is also black it is also alone yeah the exhale

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chains black looks good yeah and all this transmission uh access product from SRAM is all cross compatible so the main

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way you want to mix and match the GX XXX XX SL and XO

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nailed it hear us uh I was thinking xxxl

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oh the naming conventions in the bike industry they are challenging yep I will admit

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but yeah it's pretty big news pretty big news from SRAM uh the prior GX access drivetrain sort of upgrade kit was a

15:04

massive seller in the industry for the last three years

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it came out around there yeah yeah yeah so yeah I think this will this will be equally

15:16

important and yeah and well adopted by people that want the T-Type stuff and yeah the T-Type stuff man the what

15:22

really sold me is just how quiet it is I like that a lot and then it is I was riding my bike

15:28

um just yesterday and with mechanical stuff on it and thinking like you know you can't really shift under

15:35

load but even that delay where the chain goes from one Cog to the next you kind

15:40

of have to let up there and not put too much pressure on it but there's still just like a gap whereas the T-Type stuff

15:46

there just isn't like you can just keep 100 of the power the whole rotation and it just shifts yeah and sometimes it's

15:53

so smooth like you're like wow does that shift yeah yeah you have to double check but wow nice yeah it's it's pretty cool

15:59

it's which I'm glad because once you ride it and get familiar with it you're like okay this is significantly

16:06

different this is not just like a Reload branding or re-labeling or just fit differently like no it actually performs

16:12

differently yeah first I wasn't like 100 sold that would be that much different but after riding it like it's like okay

16:18

yeah exactly you can you can slightly change how you ride a bike especially like in a race scenario yeah pretty game

16:26

changing race scenario yeah I bet it's like shifting a car without using the clutch you just slam it whether you're

16:31

in a sanctioned race or you you are just secretly racing your friend you know

16:37

you've always wanted to beat and maybe he doesn't know you're racing still racing exactly

16:43

exactly right yeah that's a good analogy Liam it really is like the difference between almost like you know like a

16:49

manual transmission and like an F1 style like yeah paddle shifter yeah it's like yeah the other thing with this goes for

16:56

all of transmission but uh two weekends ago I did a pretty long climates I think

17:02

it takes me like over an hour hour 15 minutes for this climb I did it on my SB 120 with transmission

17:09

um you know didn't really notice anything I did it next the following weekend uh on

17:15

my real two nine with mechanical x01 um also the different cassette right so

17:20

transmission cassette on the 120 normal because Eagle 1052 on the rail 29 uh the

17:27

gaps on the upper end of the transmission cassette are way smoother way better and like you find yourself

17:34

Less in between gears um yeah well the actually ratios of all the cogs are different yeah exactly yeah

17:40

that's what I'm kidding too Jeff yeah thanks um gotta clarify man uh yeah speed

17:48

clarification sorry to interrupt but an SB 120 is made by Yeti it's a 29er 120

17:53

mil travel sort of lightweight trail bike rail 2 9 made by Revel is it bigger Enduro bike so just just for those who

18:01

don't know 155 mil travel 150 miles I just also assumed everyone's a nerd on here and yes my bike it is

18:08

but yeah so do you have a 4252 jump on an old cassette and now it's like a 46

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52 and it's like yeah I found myself bouncing between that 42 not 52 a lot just like looking for the in between a

18:21

lot of people did the second kind of complain about that huge gap yeah so yeah nice transmission GX axis

18:29

transmission pretty cool speaking of new products a couple things that uh we

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helped design uh seeing as we are co-founders of Trail one components uh

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some new pedals Vortex composite pedals as well as a new pair of grips the Farlow Gap grips yeah

18:47

um yeah I don't know anything you want to say um yeah Vortex composite pedal uh we set

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out to make a composite pedal that we felt uh we wanted to ride so

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um it's hard to get a composite pedal with all the features that you really want you're limited by

19:07

thickness of the actual like composite the plastic that you're using and how thin you can go uh profile and kind of

19:16

shaping all that stuff so um yeah we're able to get something that's really cool it's a like actual

19:22

flat pedal so not convex which most composite pedals are um with a concave pin design so kind of

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a mix in there good platform size 105 millimeters by 105 millimeters

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seven metal pins and two molded so we also uh have a lifetime warranty on them

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and you get one free rebuild kit per year with purchasing the pedals so I

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like that yeah I mean I think the idea was you know performance durability and

19:57

serviceability it's kind of it's actually really fun I think at this stage to be working with like Liam and I

20:03

get to work with a really talented engineer to design this stuff and we all collectively brainstorm and piece these

20:09

things together and it's actually really fun you'd think it would be a challenge sort of trying to design stuff this sort

20:15

of I guess you could call late in the game whereas like flat pedals grips like a lot of these things have been pretty optimized to where they are but that

20:22

allows us to just look at every tiny little detail of the different ones already in existence that we know are

20:27

good and then merge that all into one thing ourselves that's what we did with the grips it's what we did with the

20:32

pedals and what we're doing with a lot of the trail and stuff which is actually pretty fun just lets you get more granular which is we actually quite

20:39

quite enjoyable and then yeah with Trail one you know there's one dollar per set of pedals goes to

20:45

um Ocala which is a trail Network in Florida that maintains and built the vortex Trail

20:51

so yeah and then same thing Farlow Gap that's a trail in Pisgah North Carolina nice um so that'll help them build

20:57

Trails as well wow so such a fun project I really enjoy it but if you're interested in that stuff um yeah feel free just type in trail one

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into the Google machine the website's Trail one dot bike check out that stuff we're pretty proud of it wow it's come

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out quite nice and then just a quick follow Gap grips are a thinner version of our Healthcare grip so

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base pretty much the same overall design just a little bit thinner with uh the

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ribs taken out and uh yeah just a thinner package so it fits more regular

21:27

shaped hands and preferences yeah I think a lot of that boils back down to preferences but a lot of people really loved the design of the Hell's Gate grip

21:34

and everything we did there with the little cushions underneath the metacarpoles and the uh basically the whole layout of the grip but they're

21:40

like oh I just kind of want a thinner version of this I'm like oh yeah we can do that yeah so yeah what are you gonna

21:45

do Jared Are You Gonna Keep riding Hell's Gate are you gonna yeah I mean I'm used to them now I think we've talked about this on the

21:52

podcast before but irony is you used to really like thin grips yeah yeah I still do we can't with Hell's Gate and you

21:58

know I went through that route too and I was like kind of like the thinner grips and then I tried some slightly thicker grips and I was like wow these are

22:04

actually way more comfortable in my hands especially consecutive days of riding all of that so I just learned to

22:10

like them and then when you try the Hell's Gate they're too thick I want a thinner one I was like okay well don't

22:15

worry we're working on that too which is where the Farlow Gap came from but as as the Farlow Gap is in development Jared

22:22

realizes like ah now I've got used to these Hells Gate Crips and I like this diameter yeah yeah funny how things

22:27

happen right but you're not the only person because so many people have said that to me they're like man I first got them and I thought they were kind of too

22:33

thick and now I just love them I can't write any other grip yeah yes and I just love the compound uh like there's a

22:38

little bit more cushion to them and they're super soft and grippy and um gloves or no gloves like I just really like them yeah and like I

22:44

definitely noticed in Whistler you just ride in the bike park like for hours on end yeah it's like that's the place

22:50

we're kind of hanging out like I started liking a little bit thicker grip because when you have breaking bombs or just

22:55

it's just it's just rugged and rough out there like even just the normal trail bike and trails you can pedal up it's

23:00

like you get no breaks on your equipment or your body in in Whistler in the surrounding area so it's just to have

23:06

grips like that yeah but I'm Gonna Keep On Running those I mean I like Farley gaps too also on my hardtail I really like the cushy grips and

23:13

you know Still Loving that hardtail love that hardtail yeah yeah so fun honestly that's probably a black guy like reach

23:18

for most when I go riding just like Sycamore desiennes like just kind of is super raw and like you

23:25

know kind of thinking about No Frills should do it man you should understand good and I'll have a it's got your name on it

23:30

literally so I sold that salsa Cutthroat which was uh yeah quasi rigid mountain

23:36

bike you're gonna get another one but now you're like maybe I should get a hard to yeah now I'm thinking well because I also got that Revel Rover

23:42

gravel bike that we got to build up nice and I was like wow if I build that up and then I have another bike that's so

23:47

similar just has flat bars yeah maybe I should just try a hardtail because yeah I'm not riding with you on that thing I

23:53

just could build like a really ultra light hardtail but that still has decently aggressive Geo yeah so I'm

23:59

thinking about it it's the perfect hardtail life perfect Sycamore and Desi on a Spike oh yeah

24:05

I mean and then it's fun like and then you take out your full suspension you're like wow I have so much travel yeah yeah it feels different yeah sure I mean and

24:12

then you can ride it like I don't know when I ride my hardtail I I find myself like working on my fundamentals a lot

24:17

more and like actually you know taking Corners properly and you know and you can just do kind of like dumb stuff

24:24

where it feels Dumber on a hardtail yeah you know than on your you know trail bike or whatever but yep I like the idea

24:30

of doing some bike packing too and yeah hardtails are perfect for that so yeah it's very versatile I'm considering it

24:36

because of the versatility yeah you can lock out the fork you have full original it's like you know you've got a hardtail

24:42

not that long ago nothing to lose man I did have a Hefe but you never have any bike for very long I do have some bikes

24:47

for a year yeah um at least he's honest man yeah he's a

24:54

straight shooter this guy yeah I mean a year is a good Mark because I get good time on it and then you know I pass it

25:00

off before it gets too worked and loses value um yeah I had the LFA and then I had a

25:07

revel Ranger which I had like built up more as a trail bike and then I was like well

25:13

I don't ride the LFA hardtail that much and then I wanted to make that the range are more optimized for the Breck epic

25:19

last year so I've kind of turned it more on like a proper XC style bike so then they're like really close yeah so

25:25

there's like I'll sell the hardtail ride the Revel Ranger and then I had a trail bike so yeah it was cool

25:31

um yeah I just didn't find myself riding in that much and uh you know there's

25:37

only so much room in my garage so it's only five five or six bikes is pretty

25:42

much the limit right now myself too yeah pretty stacked

25:51

um I was gonna say he also has uh your gravel bike with like a with a fork

25:57

that you can put on it and do you have to put huge tires on that thing like yeah you can basically have a hard tail

26:02

should have stacked man yeah 45C tires with a little fox gravel Fork on there

26:08

yeah which is pretty versatile setup yeah um I mean I was not gonna go rip like full-on you know I don't know I

26:15

could if I wanted jumps and drops you could I mean I wouldn't doubt it why not bruh probably not flinch at the side no

26:21

I definitely would not though I'll just grab a full suspension exactly right so

26:26

I mean you could still get enough trouble have fun but yeah hardtail eyebrow back to my stacked comment The

26:32

Listener questions are stacked yeah they are so quick intermission and then listener questions and now a word from

26:39

our sponsors hey this is Craig federie from Apple I'm here to let you know last

26:44

week at Apple Park we had our worldwide developers conference and we're really excited about our New Vision Pro we're

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looking for developers to help create the world's first augmented reality mountain bike game if you're a developer

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and intimately familiar with wearing a VR headset while riding your mountain bike please email me at Craig apple.com

27:03

thank you and now back to the show listener question listener questions

27:09

number one wow budget build how to get the most out of your bike without breaking the bank

27:17

wow I like this this is really good where to optimize your bike for as few bucks as possible well I have a quick

27:24

plug okay well it's not really a plug but uh one time at bandcamp uh we spent

27:30

a lot of time sort of really dissecting and prioritizing how to upgrade your mountain bike and

27:37

what to do in what order and why and we made a YouTube video and an article about it oh yeah it's called how to

27:43

upgrade your bike what to do now what to do next all those things I'm so glad that we put a lot of thought into that

27:49

remembered because I was just gonna just start spouting off random things yeah or

27:55

you might as well throw a couple of tips in there while we're here oh yeah well once you get some breaks see some good

28:01

Stoppers so you don't break the bank yes Liam nice

28:07

um yeah well honestly that's one of the first things I was going to say is upgrade your brakes I think I think you

28:12

gotta you gotta you have to assess your whole yeah you got to look at the bike it's all individualistic yeah man that's

28:18

true it's hard yeah man my thought in that video was what is bothering you the

28:24

most if anything so if you feel as if your tires are you know cheap or bald or

28:30

deteriorated then there you go there's your first upgrade if you feel like yeah your controls and your brakes and your

28:36

drill are all work good but maybe you know the thing that bothers you the most is you feel a little Pogo sticky because

28:42

you got a base model fork or shock and then suspension might be the most logical first upgrade so kind of think

28:47

of what bothers you the most yeah and that's probably what you're going to get the most enjoyment and benefit out of

28:53

upgrading first on yeah instead of just getting like a sick 150 CNC machine stem

28:58

and be like wait it still rides like crap yeah exactly right otherwise the same exactly right unless it's a shorter

29:04

stem like if I came stock with an 80 year old stem any third length but true yeah the same length stem yeah no you're

29:09

not gonna but that ain't it Bud they also said budget builds like if you're

29:15

building a bike yeah and looking to like where to save some money and then spend

29:20

the money maybe that's what how this question that could be it yeah not how to upgrade your bike how to get the most

29:25

out of it but if you're gonna like custom build a bike yeah if that was the case I'd say good suspension good brakes

29:31

good tires yep yeah focus on those those three I think make a huge difference and

29:38

honestly when I build a lot of my bikes that's where I go high end and then everything else I kind of go mid-tier like Drive trains and alloy wheels that

29:46

are good and light but not like because a lot of the other stuff is the stuff that hits diminishing returns exactly

29:51

you know like a good a good wheel set versus a top of absolute top of the line wheel set like there's a difference but

29:57

it's pretty small yeah whereas if you look at like really basic low level suspension versus even like the close to

30:03

top tier stuff like that's a completely different way of the bike rides yeah so yeah same thing with Tires and Brakes

30:09

yeah you know what breaks I think you can call I like the allium nice work who makes some really good like mid-grade breaks this is magura like those mt5s

30:16

t5s are solid really hard to beat those are really good brakes like I just love they're just a great lever feel and

30:23

power like I don't know you have a solid breakage nice forestall and they work great nice

30:30

well yeah anything else to add cool I don't know I think uh I think that's

30:35

about it for the budget bike build so like Liam's take did you say good pedals that's pretty close yeah contact points

30:42

contacts those are almost a given though right yeah some extent yeah yeah contact

30:48

points with your body and with the ground yep yeah this is a good question here I like using otrain on my longer

30:54

travel bike I'm curious to try the new SRAM transmission and I'm wondering if there's a way to use ceramic

31:00

transmission with a node chain today or if there's something that is actually non-compatible from a chain line or

31:05

chainring perspective that would prevent this and Liam you said you were kind of checking this out a little bit for the

31:11

podcast yeah where it's spoke with oh chain when transmission first came out and they're in process of making it and

31:17

I just looked and they do have a o chain spider that is now transmission

31:23

compatible which basically means you need a eight bolt SRAM crank or

31:29

chainring pattern o chain Mount so basically the newer

31:34

cost I think you said it right did I get lost in the summer I think you got it makes their own base it's a spider

31:40

basically that attaches to the new SRAM transmission cranks via the eight bolt

31:45

pattern yeah SRAM moved from three bolt as if they've done for the last

31:52

we don't really know why but it does require new chain rings and therefore a

31:57

new spider so o chain made a eight bolt and it is available on their site so all you would need is that o chain and then

32:04

get a 104 BCD chainring narrow wide that is transmission compatible right and

32:09

you'd be good to go and they make all that and you know exactly why they did that it is to completely erase all of

32:15

the backwards compatibility that there would have been yeah you think that's what they would

32:20

say oh so you know a little bit the marketing speak would say exactly that

32:26

it's so we could erase the backwards compatibility if they did make it that easy they did only make their their

32:32

power meter cranks eight bolt for the past couple years probably for the same maybe like that I honestly could see

32:38

like yeah for some reason it's also so so now everything is between Road Mountain and gravel uses the same April

32:45

pattern but yeah yeah that three bolt 8-ball thing was confusing because there wasn't

32:51

an issue it wasn't as if people were having issues with that at all no no so

32:56

that wasn't that wasn't even a if it ain't broke don't fix it like it's not only is it not broke but it's not

33:01

inferior it's not it's perfect it is five less bolts that you need the

33:10

question is how many people are just going to run the eight bolt and only put three bolts in there and just go on with them it's like how some people run three

33:16

bolts on their six bolts yeah man nice every gram counts even when I was a weight weenie race next year I'd see

33:22

people do three bolts I'm like I'm just gonna run six man yeah it's like 10 extra grams yeah I can handle that right

33:28

yeah well for for context too uh we've talked about oh chain a number of times on this podcast but if you're not

33:33

familiar with it it is a device that bolts onto your crank and it uh how do

33:39

you how do you describe that it creates a little bit of play before your pedal engages and that way when your

33:46

suspension activates and can pull backwards on your chain I.E chain growth that doesn't affect your your cranks and

33:54

your pedals or essentially give you pedal kick back which makes your suspension feel stiffer eliminates

34:01

Kickback how does otane describe this hard it's hard thing to uh I think that's pretty much exactly yeah

34:08

honestly it's a floating active spider yeah there you go so yeah and we do have

34:15

another podcast where Nico talked pretty in depth about running o Chain versus running a high pivot with an idler and

34:22

all that and he ended up running a bike basically designed a round O chain so you could run a bike with a

34:28

little bit more pedal Kickback and chain growth but not quite enough to run a idler and have it as you know sort of a

34:35

mid High pivot so yeah it is it is an interesting concept this o chain says it much more clearly

34:42

and concisely um it says freedom to go beyond pedal Kickback and experience the chainless

34:47

feeling so the I mean but that also means you know what the chainless feeling is so if

34:54

actually it's a really fun thing to do with your bike um take your bike ride a familiar trailer that you always go downhill on

35:00

and take your chain off and zip tie your trailer so it doesn't bounce around and see how your suspension behaves because

35:08

some suspension designs most of them have some level of chain growth meaning uh there's a little bit of pedal

35:13

Kickback when the suspension uh goes up goes throughout its travel and riding that same suspension with no Chain

35:20

versus a chain you can experience that and O chain is supposed to create that chainless feeling so

35:26

if you're really interested in this stuff um check out that podcast with Nico which was like 90 episode 92 or

35:32

uh yeah 91 maybe and then also I thought it was the more recent one that he he

35:38

kind of went more in depth on that but I could be wrong one when he was actually yeah we've done a couple years Nico yeah yeah but yeah there you go check out

35:46

ochain that is a really cool interesting product for the people that want that chainless feeling super cool

35:53

next question if you had to eat a crown straight from the box which color are you going for

35:58

crayon yeah kids coloring like a Crayola Crayola I could never say that when I

36:04

was a kid Crayola I still have trouble Crayola crayon crayon crayon incredible

36:09

they gotta be edible oh none of us have kids my mostly wax the trans edible I

36:15

don't think so no he doesn't think so so don't eat the crayon anytime he takes

36:20

them out he says oh that's not non-toxic

36:28

um you just might get an upset tummy oh is what they say okay that's with most food that we eat yeah um or or general

36:36

people eat um here this one says if ingested will largely act like a mild laxative oh

36:42

I mean wax that is one solution if you don't have laxatives at home and you have crayons you're more at risk from

36:49

choking on it I'm gonna go foreign

37:07

to me it's better than artificial cherry or strawberry though I was gonna go strawberry or artificial grape I think

37:12

are way better yeah I was gonna go purple for like pretty much when I went straight forward the things mountain

37:18

bikers learn on the MTV podcast crayons can be eaten and react as a mild laxative so next question start

37:24

flavoring them this is actually a good question what's your favorite chain lube for SoCal wet and dry conditions you

37:31

skipped one well we'll answer this yes you did yeah but what's the answer to that go ahead Liam I'm excited about the

37:36

chain do you know what channel abuse on your bike stuff squirt okay nice nice I have

37:43

to lube my chain sometimes when no one's around to him by Chain uh yesterday I changed my whole cockpit I know I'm

37:49

really sorry about that no and put on a water bottle cage I totally messed up I blanked it Monday was kind of a Pinner

37:56

of a day and he asked me to put the trail on cockpit on the Banshee it was gonna ride and I remembered halfway up

38:02

the whole end on my road ride and going oh I forgot to set up Jeff's bike

38:08

I almost chatted you sorry in the middle of the ride totally forgot it's always in the funniest places

38:15

like oh my God yeah um there you go so yeah I've actually I

38:20

went down a bit of a chain lube Rabbit Hole uh last year um got super in like zero friction facts

38:27

and all these friction websites and silke and all the stuff going down the rabbit hole and kind of just came in the

38:34

fact that squirt is kind of the best lasting it's a liquid

38:40

wax meaning you put it on and it's wet and then you let it actually fully dry like best is to do overnight and then

38:47

it's almost a dry work that's one of the cons to that lube is that you can't put it on right before that is correct yeah

38:53

yeah you gotta put it on the night before but when you do it properly you fully decrease your chain you put it on

38:58

with proper coats I think it lasts the longest it's quiet um it has a very low friction rating and

39:06

it's not super expensive like some of the other you know ones like silica or ceramic speed that are just ridiculously

39:12

expensive for chain lube um so yeah squirt squirt is

39:17

what I recommend for dry SoCal conditions not to be confused with the beverage the beverage yeah there's like

39:24

a lemon lime like a lemon type beverage right type beverage I will say that yeah I am impressed with that Scorch stuff I

39:31

think it's slightly annoying you got to put on the night before however it does last really long it is quiet and it

39:36

doesn't attract any dirt and that's like mud it's also versatile in that sense so like it doesn't it works perfectly good

39:42

in a bunch of creek crossings in mud as well as dust yeah it definitely doesn't work quite as well when you start

39:47

getting it wet and through a ton of creek crossings however you know if you're not running a ton of

39:52

that it still works well like why you use it whenever we travel and we were in Colorado last summer and hit 10 creek

39:58

crossings a day and still have Quiet Drive trains and people next to us did not so yeah yeah nice squirt uh I like

40:05

the muck off bio dry I've just been getting that second best second best yeah and uh you know I don't always have

40:13

the presence of mind to lose my chain the night before yeah that's a good go-to when you got to do it the morning you know what I do

40:20

I do it immediately after I finish writing yeah yeah that's smart you just literally before I put my bike up on the

40:26

wall I just and it's so it's so clean like yeah it's so clean it's literally like two or three back pedals put it

40:32

back on another two or three back pedals and on the wall get it right next time super easy that's pretty good it's an

40:38

admirable level of discipline you have there Mr Woods no

40:43

it sure is the question that I skipped how heavy is

40:49

too heavy I live in Central Florida the trails are at are mostly uh Punchy climbs steep drops as well as roots and

40:54

trunk and he's currently riding a 35.8 pound Marin Alpine Trail XR because he

41:00

you know bought it because of spec and long story short thought he's gonna be riding at other places but wondering if

41:06

he would benefit from ditching the Steed and getting something carbon with maybe 120-130 mil travel and obviously less

41:12

weight I checked out this bike and it's got like a lyric and a coil shock and I think it's alloy frame and you know kind

41:18

of a beefy rig so it's a big dog it's a beefy rig so I mean yeah I could see that like living in Florida you know it

41:25

could be a little over biked um but I thought I mean personally I was

41:30

like yeah I mean kind of sounds like the perfect place to have like a ranger or an SB 120. yeah I I'm gonna say a lot of

41:39

what you feel isn't necessarily the overall weight of the bike but the platform on the bike right you can have

41:45

a ranger 120 or you know a shorter travel bike still at 32 33 pounds yeah

41:52

for sure but the platform is going to feel better than something that is so you know a long-legged you know 150 rear

41:57

travel yeah coil shock right um so the weight is definitely part of

42:03

it but the platform I I'd say is equally as big of a factor if not maybe bigger

42:09

than weight yeah that's true I mean I think what

42:14

he's writing now he could probably have a couple sets of Wheels like buy another set of wheels that had way

42:20

lighter tires and rims on it yeah and when he's gonna go ride stuff where he knows it's not super chunky and gnarly

42:25

and or high speed like run your super light wheels and then if you're going to go to a bike park or somewhere that's a

42:31

little bit more rugged than run your more durable Wheels yep with heavier tires because I mean that to me makes a

42:36

huge difference like having a lightweight tire and rim just makes the bike feel like it spins up to speed faster rolls faster really changes the

42:43

feel of a bike and it's it's just the wheels it's not like an entire bike and maybe if you do have a coil shock and

42:49

air shock might also help your your case of pedaling a little bit more efficiently I was thinking that too maybe but you know yeah stiffen it up a

42:57

little bit and I don't know a little more supportive pedaling indeed yeah indeed there you go I don't

43:03

know I'm also a weight weenie so hard to imagine riding a 36 pound bike

43:09

that seems a lot what does your Banshee weigh it's only 30 31 31 yeah 31 yeah yeah

43:16

it's like a full full-fledged Enduro bike nice so yeah I don't know I like I like bikes being lighter but it just

43:23

depends on the use case and it also depends on like I think this is a huge part of like

43:29

e-bikes and different categories of e-bikes but how much do you weigh as a rider because Jeff and I at 150 155

43:36

pounds that right of you know 30 pound bike has a much different ratio than Jared or what 185 190 you know 30 pounds like you

43:45

know you have a 40 not 40 40 more pounds on us yeah I don't know percentage that is but you know it's like 25 more weight

43:52

yeah on the same bike that's a big difference yeah that's true never really thought about that yeah for you guys

43:59

well there you go how about this one tire pressure tire pressure I've been riding bikes for just

44:05

over 20 years tire pressure is never really something I paid attention to usually just set it and forget it currently running 23 in front 25 on the

44:12

rear but weigh about 170 with gear lives in Washington DC area lots of hard pack

44:18

and a mild drought right now uh Dusty and slippery he's noticing that

44:24

he's kind of sliding out in the rear and he's wondering if he should increase or decrease pressure to help with the

44:29

situation get a little more grip he's also running a delium steady 2.4 all-around casing with a cushcore insert

44:37

which is a pretty good intermediate Tire I think the steady is like a

44:42

little bit more than like a Maxis Recon maybe not quite as much as like a Maxis aggressor things right in that zone yeah

44:49

that's a pretty good Trail tire and a cushcore insert um I don't know I said if I had a guess I'd

44:56

say you're kind of in the ballpark of your rear and front pressure for your weight not awesome as long as he's

45:02

checking it 24 25 it's not bad I mean maybe a couple lower if you want a little bit more I don't know you go

45:08

22-27 a couple more in the back oh you think

45:14

that'll help with his number situation let me make it slide a little more yeah oh he has no traction in the back yeah

45:23

Jeff doesn't like Traction in the backs I wouldn't go lower than 25 in the back yeah going lower than 25 at 170

45:30

um just a lot of weight on that rear tire even climbing or descending like there's just always a lot of weight on the rear

45:36

tires going below 25 like even if you can get away with it like there's not really any performance benefits to that

45:42

yeah I rarely run on a 25 psi I'm 150 pounds yeah um and that's only if I'm like super

45:48

super XC riding and I know the terrain's pretty mellow I'll go like 24. otherwise

45:54

I'm 26 and up in the rear personally so um yeah I don't know maybe let it drift

46:01

out a little bit more and keep that that front tire and gripping you know yeah I wouldn't say he's too far off by anymore

46:07

I mean the reality is is like it doesn't you know the you when you're riding dry

46:13

Dusty loose over hard packed Trails like you're just gonna slip around here and there yeah that's true part of the sport

46:18

there's no it doesn't matter who you are or how good you are like it's just it's just part of the deal you can work on

46:23

your you know climbing position and raking technique and things like that to try and get better at that stuff which

46:28

is always a helpful thing to do but at the end of the day I mean you can go watch the fastest guys in the world go

46:33

uphill or downhill and they're going to have the same situations on that type of terrain so yeah yeah just gotta get used

46:39

to it a little bit and work around it but I don't think it's too far off pressure-wise you might uh have fun just

46:44

trying 24 PSI 25 psi 26 PSI 27 and uh you know run the same Trail over

46:51

and over and change one PSI per run and see if you do notice the difference because that's a lot of his preference

46:57

too in your writing style so you might notice you know 27 PSI you have more

47:03

control because your tire's not rolling around or something yeah experimentation is key yeah especially it's like part of

47:09

what makes mountain biking fun is yeah go out write down what you did one day go out the next weekend and write down what you're doing this time and see how

47:15

different it is and if you like it or don't like it yeah and tire pressure and suspension pressure literally costs

47:21

nothing to adjust and mess with so yeah that is very true true yeah but if you do feel like spending

47:27

money I guess you could try a different tire I mean a wider Tire Maybe yeah he's got a guitar yeah that's true

47:33

I want to say it's a bad tire at all or too narrow or too fat so yeah yeah for those who aren't familiar with delium

47:39

they make uh really really surprisingly good quality tires for an unbelievably good price point like in the 55 range

47:46

they're somewhere close to half the price of all the other big name brands out there fairly new tire company as

47:52

well and yeah definitely impressive tires um that are extremely value friendly

47:58

wallet friendly value priced World similar yeah it's good stuff yeah we have those on the sites yeah we do

48:04

actually I was mistaken the study is very similar to Han stomp there you go yeah so good Tire though yeah nice

48:12

um cool next question is the single most important innovation of the industry and why is this like a past innovation

48:20

I would assume so yeah you'd think that's what that was meant

48:25

um I don't know that's that's a challenging one because a lot of this stuff has been yeah dropper post seems to be the one that is like so

48:31

substantial yeah um it's kind of changed and you could say like suspension though yeah but at

48:36

the same yeah like if you think of a fully rigid bike versus a bike with suspension like that is one major

48:42

difference yeah or a fully rigid with a drop poster without a drop I was literally just gonna say yeah it'd be a

48:49

fun race to do like fully rigid with a dropper versus a you know 100 Mil bike

48:54

or something suspended yeah with no dropper and how much faster you can go right I would almost argue drop would

49:01

make a bigger difference yeah I mean definitely for confidence downhill at least yeah and depends on

49:07

the train but yeah oh disc brakes or another pretty massive Innovations yeah and then I don't know just break

49:13

suspension and dropper tubeless is so pretty slotting in maybe in that fourth

49:18

Zone one by e it's definitely nice but it doesn't make or break a lot of I

49:26

don't think any of those come close to disc brake suspension and droppers though yeah but like like I would I

49:32

still don't care about riding like I could ride tubes right now not really think it was that big of a deal until you run to go heads and get a flat

49:38

enough to change your tube yeah you know in the mountains like they're

49:43

on the road on their way there but yeah I don't know you still get flat tires don't like it fixed the whole problem

49:49

man I I got a a small little puncture on my road bike over the weekend I was in a

49:54

group ride and they're like oh you have sealant spraying up and I was like oh it might seal and then like a minute or two

50:00

later like it's not ceiling yeah and I was like all right like all right total mess sprays over everything I pulled

50:06

over real quick pulled out my Dyna plug saw there's a little piece of glass in there and I was like I'm on a group ride I'm not gonna make everyone wait stab

50:12

the Dyna plug in there yeah put it up and I was rolling before the front of the group even like figured out that we

50:18

had to stop for a flat because they take a while they're like flop flop flop flop you know and people are still kind of

50:24

slow rolling and I was like rolling up like no we're good let's go dude you can't do that with tubes yeah I

50:29

was in and out of that thing in 30 seconds well I definitely don't think it's like it's definitely a very very

50:35

relevant Innovation but in terms of Tire technology in general I mean yeah in terms of mountain biking like I could

50:40

still go out and ride with tubes in right now and wouldn't be the end of the world but I'm certainly not gonna go out with no dropper post on a rigid or

50:47

whatever well I did have a original yeah rigid with jopper and tubeless yeah what

50:56

about geometry I don't know is that really an innovation or just a Evolution iteration evaluation Evolution yeah yeah

51:03

um this leads good into this next question how nice of a bike do you need the nicest one ever

51:10

and buy from World War I actually yeah uh for example I read gnarly stuff have

51:16

a specialized status 160 and X drive chain 36 Rhythm dpx2 code our brakes I

51:22

mean that's already a pretty nice bike yeah honestly like

51:28

especially for riding black and double black trails like you're saying like getting a lot nicer stuff especially

51:35

like drivetrain isn't going to make a huge difference I'd say kind of going back to what we just said code our

51:40

breaks code RC brakes and proper rotors will make a good difference and 36 Rhythm if you put a grip 2 damper in

51:47

there that'd make a really good controllable like difference in the way your your fork feels so yeah but I mean

51:54

that's a perfect like mid-level bike and like going up kind of what we're saying you're going to see some diminishing returns so yeah

52:01

you know what's bothering you is yeah upgradable you know yeah you can have a

52:06

great bike and slowly upgrade it that's half the fun of yeah the the sport and uh you know do do what financially makes

52:13

sense for you as well yeah we don't advise advise going into debt to get a nice bike yeah so I mean you can the

52:20

reality is you can have fun on anything um yeah like you can still get out there

52:25

and have fun so if the situation is you got to have a Cheesy cheap bike then like you can still go out there and have

52:31

fun and don't let anyone tell you otherwise yeah just get another bike

52:36

yeah bike bikes are good it's fun to have nicer ones but it's still fun to just ride them in general so yeah focus

52:42

on getting a good one it is well Gents you wanna rip through this last question in 10 seconds I think this is a great uh

52:48

great question um okay so basically these guys are talking about uh the cost of bike parts these days and why certain things cost

52:54

so much uh he broke his dropper levels Buddy says you got the pnw loam because it's really nice and this guy said

53:00

that's ridiculous how expensive it costs and his buddy says well it's super high quality and

53:06

um it's got warranty and like what more do you want and basically they're they're arguing about why bike parts

53:12

cost so much um one one friend says it's five dollars in materials it's a waste of money if

53:18

only if it was that simple yeah yeah and the other day everyone's just driving Lamborghinis in the bike industry because we have a like a massive margin

53:26

on all these parts I mean I'll happily answer this since I'm pretty deep it's just uninformed yeah pretty deep in this

53:32

with Trail one um you're correct that the actual dropper lever might only cost five

53:38

dollars in material that's raw material not machined not any tooling fees any

53:44

programming fees the engineer to design it um so that all customizing Operations

53:50

Logistics before you before you build a materials full of all the other small things also included in the letter

53:56

before you even make the lever you know you have all this this cost up front to get it made and then afterwards you have

54:03

to have boxes boxes you have to ship this and package it across the United or

54:08

the ocean into the United States uh then distribution warehousing like Jeff said

54:14

um so I mean he's not really wrong yeah technically the raw materials might only

54:20

be five bucks but like that's fine just don't really have full context and

54:27

understanding of what's going on behind the scenes and a way for them to learn that is you could just say I understand

54:32

see if you can make it for five dollars good sir yeah yeah make it yourself for five dollars

54:39

well I don't have the machine yeah oh it costs 250 000 for a CNC machine and

54:44

that's the low end one 500 000 for the one that's gonna make this part yeah

54:49

yeah people say that stuff all the time when people how expensive is that like oh it's seven thousand oh Mike seven

54:56

thousand dollars I could buy a Honda Civic for that price yep okay well good anyways

55:02

how's baseball going these days like it's just I don't know I just changed the topic I don't even care to talk to the thing on that situation yeah I mean

55:10

yeah definitely there's points and on both ends of the argument but like yeah it's just like sets a lack of

55:15

information like material cost is like 10 of the equation yeah and then you got people working at pnw you gotta have

55:21

people shipping these things out you know yeah there's all sorts of input costs into this yeah but you know like

55:27

the more you get into the world of business and Manufacturing in particular the more you understand all this stuff and what actually goes into creating

55:33

products of any kind yeah marketing I mean all sorts of things just making sure people know it and can buy it and

55:38

have a warranty on it and Company stand behind it yeah well before we go a quick note we did talk about toilet paper

55:44

rolls and having your toilet paper waterfall forward at you or yeah and how

55:50

ridiculous it would be the back if it was off the back yeah but but we were you know not informed there are there is

55:56

a method to Madness yeah the commenters will always tell you and this I read this comment I was like uh this guy's a

56:03

good point this guy's right so slightly I don't really see how rolling around the back's gonna fix this guy's issues

56:09

thinking cat will still just do it it will but it will just roll around and it'll be on top that'll hit the front of it like this yeah and then if it's

56:15

rolled in the back it won't unravel all over the ground something like a kid could do too it's like if you bump a

56:21

roll if you bump a toilet paper roll that's facing backwards it won't unravel all over the floor

56:39

so it makes sense like if you have a cat and if you have kids that are bumping the thing all the time yeah um then

56:45

you'd want to run your toilet paper around the back reverse waterfall around yeah reverse waterfall

56:51

um well he's also surprised chairs as a dentist and he said now I understand the yeti apology if he overstepped nope

56:58

that's all online appreciate it thanks for reaching out

57:05

if you've listened this far we genuinely appreciate it it would mean the world to us if you would leave a review in

57:11

particular on Apple podcast or Spotify and if you have any questions we look at these all the time podcast at worldwide

57:17

Cyclery send them via email and uh I don't know anything else good night and good luck good luck thank

57:24

you very much